Help with recipe conversion (1 Viewer)

[Sonia p]

Hi again, I have a new dilemma I'm going to help my friend make a minecraft gf lemon cake. I've found this recipe but need to convert it to a 8inch x 3inch deep square cake. Maths is not one of my strengths... could you help me please regarding quantities, bake temp and time?

 

[Angie]

Hi @Sonia p

Lol! Well, at least you're experimenting.

I've been back and forth with this recipe because I don't think it's as straightforward as the other conversion due to it being a sandwich cake recipe, which is shallower in depth than the 3-inch cake you're looking to do.

Having said that, I do have a couple of options depending on what you want to choose.

The first one is the simplest one, which is where you just double the recipe, as in all the quantities:

• 450 Grams Butter, Sugar, Flour
• 2 Tsp GF Baking Powder
• Half teaspoon Xanthan gum.

The reason I'm saying this is because the recipe in your book is a standard Victoria/Sponge recipe, which is equal amounts of butter, sugar and flour, albeit gluten-free. Although I haven't used gf flour, I'm hoping that the gf baking powder will still have enough leavening to lift it and the increased Xanthan gum will bind the flour properly.

I had a look at an 8x3 inch Madeira square cake I made, and the quantities of around 400/450 grams above roughly match the amount of the ingredients I've used to make a cake that size, so I know the quantity levels seem about right.

When I tried converting your 8-inch recipe to the 8-inch square recipe, the ingredients levels were coming in low. However, I know what levels I use when I make a 6 x 3-inch sponge, so I was looking at converting it to a square cake, quantity-wise, that way.

Anyway, I've been back and forth on the maths, so if you want to go with the above and use that, it may be a slightly over on quantity, but you can decide how much you want to put in your tin, if you do it that way I would probably say bake it on a 150°C middle shelf for about one and a half to 2hrs. I would check it after one and a half hours and then check it every ten minutes with a skewer. Sponges bake quicker because they are light, so that's why I'd check around the one-and-a-half-hour mark.

However, if you're not happy with that, I can work out various other quantities for you using different methods. As you know, it's all a rough estimate when you change the recipe, but the sponge one usually converts very well when scaled, so I'm hoping that this one will, too.

At the minute, I'm trying to get the best/most precise quantities for the Xantham gum using other conversions, so let me know if you're happy with the doubling or if you want more reduced quantities. In all honesty, I think about 400 grams of each would suffice, but I'm just trying to get the fraction amounts down on the Xanthan gum.

It's like being at school again!

 

[Sonia p]

Hi @Sonia p

Lol! Well, at least you're experimenting.

I've been back and forth with this recipe because I don't think it's as straightforward as the other conversion due to it being a sandwich cake recipe, which is shallower in depth than the 3-inch cake you're looking to do.

Having said that, I do have a couple of options depending on what you want to choose.

The first one is the simplest one, which is where you just double the recipe, as in all the quantities:

• 450 Grams Butter, Sugar, Flour
• 2 Tsp GF Baking Powder
• Half teaspoon Xanthan gum.

The reason I'm saying this is because the recipe in your book is a standard Victoria/Sponge recipe, which is equal amounts of butter, sugar and flour, albeit gluten-free. Although I haven't used gf flour, I'm hoping that the gf baking powder will still have enough leavening to lift it and the increased Xanthan gum will bind the flour properly.

I had a look at an 8x3 inch Madeira square cake I made, and the quantities of around 400/450 grams above roughly match the amount of the ingredients I've used to make a cake that size, so I know the quantity levels seem about right.

When I tried converting your 8-inch recipe to the 8-inch square recipe, the ingredients levels were coming in low. However, I know what levels I use when I make a 6 x 3-inch sponge, so I was looking at converting it to a square cake, quantity-wise, that way.

Anyway, I've been back and forth on the maths, so if you want to go with the above and use that, it may be a slightly over on quantity, but you can decide how much you want to put in your tin, if you do it that way I would probably say bake it on a 150°C middle shelf for about one and a half to 2hrs. I would check it after one and a half hours and then check it every ten minutes with a skewer. Sponges bake quicker because they are light, so that's why I'd check around the one-and-a-half-hour mark.

However, if you're not happy with that, I can work out various other quantities for you using different methods. As you know, it's all a rough estimate when you change the recipe, but the sponge one usually converts very well when scaled, so I'm hoping that this one will, too.

At the minute, I'm trying to get the best/most precise quantities for the Xantham gum using other conversions, so let me know if you're happy with the doubling or if you want more reduced quantities. In all honesty, I think about 400 grams of each would suffice, but I'm just trying to get the fraction amounts down on the Xanthan gum.

It's like being at school again!

Hi Angie, thank you so so much for this. It's been very helpful. I'm wondering if we should go with your madeira cake but a gluten free lemon version. That way it'll be easier to decorate. Plus I know how tasty the madeira cake is. I hope I don't ruin it by making it gluten free
What do you think? Can I just add some lemon rind and juice to the stock syrup then make a lemon buttercream

 

[Angie]

Aww, @Sonia p, you're most welcome, my dear.

It's entirely up to you, depending on how comfortable you feel. The taste and texture may be different due to the GF plain flour, but that's down to personal preference. Some people like gf cakes much better.

Now, to some things you'll need to take care of.

GF Flour considerations.

• From the research I have done, you should be able to swap out the same amount of flour in the recipe 'like for like', but check to see what your pack says.
• If the flour doesn't contain xanthan gum, then you will need to add that to the batter.
• Some of the 'FREEE' gluten-free range does contain xanthan gum in the flour, so be sure to check ingredients before you add any to your mix.
• Adding too much xanthan gum can make the cake overly sticky, not adding enough can make it crumbly and dry.
• Remember, if doing the Madeira recipe, you will need gf plain flour.

If you need to add any xanthan gum, Tesco suggests you add 1/4 tsp to every 200 grams of flour when making a cake.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268920065

The recipe for the Madeira is 450 grams of flour, so if you used half a teaspoon, that should suffice. And if we look at the original recipe, you were looking at 1/4 tsp of xanthan gum for every 225 grams of flour, so that matches up.

If you're unhappy using the xantham gum, then you need to add additional liquids to the batter to ensure that you hydrate the flour enough for it to bind and rise. It is a personal choice, but for ease, I would use the xanthan gum.

Now, to throw a spanner in the works, my Madeira recipe calls for 3 tbsps milk, but if using the xanthan gum that is used as the hydration. So you can either just use the xanthan gum or use the milk. I don't think I would use both. Your original recipe didn't call for additional liquids with the xanthan gum, so I would either use either or.

As you know, this is a total trial-and-error recipe, so I have no idea what the results will be.

Now, to the stock syrup/cake/lemons.

• If you are using zest, wash the lemons first.
• You can add the zest of a lemon to the Madeira cake if you like to add a little extra flavour.
• For the stock syrup, heat the sugar, water and the zest of a lemon until the sugar has boiled out. Once the sugar has dissolved, turn off the heat and then add the juice of a lemon to the syrup, stir in and allow to cool. Strain with a sieve before using it on the cake. It removes the zest but keeps the flavour. This can then be used to infuse into your cake when baked.
• Note - Don't add the lemon juice at the beginning or when boiling because when heated, it can make the lemon taste bitter.
• Not sure if you have a lemon buttercream recipe, but here's one below. This recipe can be doubled up to make a bigger batch.

Lemon Buttercream Recipe and Guide

Here is a guide showing you how to make lemon buttercream. This recipe will fill a 7-inch sponge cake or pipe around 8-10 cupcakes, depending on how much you use to cover them. Ingredients 125 Grams Unsalted Butter 250 Grams Icing Sugar 1 Small Lemon Note: Remove the butter from the fridge...

www.helpmebake.com

I hope the above hasn't overcomplicated things for you, but as you know, altering the ratios of any recipe can cause the cakes to do their own thing. Hopefully, this will work out in your favour.

Let me know if you need anything else and let me know what you decide. This one is a touch more complicated, so you may want to see if anyone has a tried and tested gluten-free 8x3-inch square cake recipe that you know works. I must admit I have to applaud you for all your experimentation.

I look forward to seeing how you get on.

 

[Angie]

Hi @Sonia p, me again. I've just been doing some more reading into Xanthan Gum, and there are mixed reviews about its usage. Although it can be used in gluten-free foods if the person eating the cake has severe allergies or coeliac disease, then some places are saying don't use it as it can aggravate or irritate stomach issues, bloating, etc.

Looking at the 'Freee range', theirs is endorsed by Coeliac UK, so you may be okay with that, but just check with your friend and who they are making the cake for and find out what precise allergies they have/or if they are okay to consume anything with xanthan gum in the flour or added into the batter.

Some people are more sensitive to products than others, so it's always best to triple-check who can have what.

 

[Sonia p]

Hi @Sonia p, me again. I've just been doing some more reading into Xanthan Gum, and there are mixed reviews about its usage. Although it can be used in gluten-free foods if the person eating the cake has severe allergies or coeliac disease, then some places are saying don't use it as it can aggravate or irritate stomach issues, bloating, etc.

Looking at the 'Freee range', theirs is endorsed by Coeliac UK, so you may be okay with that, but just check with your friend and who they are making the cake for and find out what precise allergies they have/or if they are okay to consume anything with xanthan gum in the flour or added into the batter.

Some people are more sensitive to products than others, so it's always best to triple-check who can have what.

You are amazing!!! Thank you so much. So helpful!! If you hadn't said about using the xanthum OR the milk I'd have probably added both!
The birthday is at the weekend so I'll update you then. Unless I get stuck and need more help

 

[Angie]

Aww, thank you. I hope it turns out wonderful for you. Are you going to make a test cake beforehand, or are you just going straight in?

Yeah, please let me know how you get on, if you need anything else, you know where I am.

 

[Sonia p]

Aww, thank you. I hope it turns out wonderful for you. Are you going to make a test cake beforehand, or are you just going straight in?

Yeah, please let me know how you get on, if you need anything else, you know where I am.

We're going to do a test bake tomorrow! Might be Victoria sponge might be madeira, a decision will be made at some point! I'm hoping xx

 

[Angie]

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Angie]

Afternoon, I took the plunge and currently have an 8 x 3-inch gluten-free square Madeira in the oven.

I used Freee plain flour, Dr Oetker Baking Powder (apparently, it can be used in GF Bakes), large eggs and milk. No xanthan gum, and there's none in the flour either. I'm hoping the liquid from the eggs and milk will help bind the flour.
Here's hoping.

I'm currently hovering over the oven like I don't know what.

Bake, rise, bake, rise.

 

[Sonia p]

Afternoon, I took the plunge and currently have an 8 x 3-inch gluten-free square Madeira in the oven.

I used Freee plain flour, Dr Oetker Baking Powder (apparently, it can be used in GF Bakes), large eggs and milk. No xanthan gum, and there's none in the flour either. I'm hoping the liquid from the eggs and milk will help bind the flour.
Here's hoping.

I'm currently hovering over the oven like I don't know what.

Bake, rise, bake, rise.

Hahaha, I love that you made a decision way before me and just went for it! I was about to start but needed to pop to the shop for baking paper. Kinda tempted to hear how yours goes before starting you're so kind to try this out for us did the curiosity get the better of you?

 

[Angie]

Aww, you are lovely with your kind words. Yes, I had to. Curiosity was definitely getting the better of me. I was going to make a smaller one to see if that worked, but hey, in for a penny, in for a pound, and all that. When the batter went in, it was slightly curdled, so I was a bit dubious because that generally happens when there's too much liquid and not enough flour to soak it in. But looking through the oven door, it's risen more than I thought it would, smells nice, and looks to be doing okay.

I'm going to skewer it at one and a half hours to see how much it's baked and then play it by ear. It's up to you on the baking; wait for me and see or make the Victoria. I don't think I'm going to put stock syrup on it because I want to see how moist the cake is beforehand.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Angie]

Oooh, this is a new concept. Just pulled it out of the oven after finally managing to get the blooming thing out of the oven because I somehow locked it on timer! Anyway, the top coating felt slightly crusty/crumbly when I pushed my finger against it, although the skewer came out clean. I've since put it back in for five minutes and pushed again on the top, I can feel one side of the cake slightly spring back a bit, but the other side feels softer underneath, so I've turned it around in the oven and put the softer side of the cake facing towards the fan. I'm just hoping that I can manually work out what has baked.

Doesn't help when the hubby comes down the stairs and says he can smell burnt cake.

 

[Angie]

Well, here it is.



I took it out of the tin quicker than normal because it says too much moisture or steam trapped in the cake can make it gummy, so I'm hoping that it's baked enough. I baked it for 1hr 47 mins in total. Then left it to cool for ten minutes on a damp tea towel & wire rack. I then flipped it face down on a new wire rack, then left it for a few minutes and then carefully removed the tin with oven gloves because it was hot. (I would normally leave it face down for ten minutes to let gravity do its job, but I'm trying to ensure the best results possible for this cake).

I was a little worried when I flipped it over, though, because the top is soft/crumbly, as you can see, so I didn't know if it would hold up under its own weight or crush the crust a bit. At present, it's holding, so I'm going to let it cool and then cut into it later when it's colder.



I've put it under a food tent for now while it cools properly.

 

[Sonia p]

Well, here it is.

View attachment 9314

I took it out of the tin quicker than normal because it says too much moisture or steam trapped in the cake can make it gummy, so I'm hoping that it's baked enough. I baked it for 1hr 47 mins in total. Then left it to cool for ten minutes on a damp tea towel & wire rack. I then flipped it face down on a new wire rack, then left it for a few minutes and then carefully removed the tin with oven gloves because it was hot. (I would normally leave it face down for ten minutes to let gravity do its job, but I'm trying to ensure the best results possible for this cake).

I was a little worried when I flipped it over, though, because the top is soft/crumbly, as you can see, so I didn't know if it would hold up under its own weight or crush the crust a bit. At present, it's holding, so I'm going to let it cool and then cut into it later when it's colder.

View attachment 9315

I've put it under a food tent for now while it cools properly.

Have you tried any? Eeeeek

 

[Angie]

Family taste testing after tea.

 

[Sonia p]

Yikes, I'm so nervous do you think it's quite delicate? We're hoping to do buttercream then fondant on top. My youngest was off from school today poorly so didn't get a chance to bake but planning to try tomorrow

 

[Angie]

I cut the cake before I put my tea on. It's nice and soft and slightly crumbly, but it's gummy in the centre. I think from reading up, this is down to a few possibilities, one I took it out at 1.5 hrs so I've messed with the structure slightly, I didn't beat it for long enough before putting the batter in the oven, apparently GF bakes like being mixed for longer and some of them are saying let the batter react for a while on the side to allow moisture to absorb into the flour. Or bake for longer. Some are saying the flour may be the cause but then, reading another website a lady who does lots of GF baking recommends the one I used.

To be honest, looking at it I would say it's underdone because I sometimes have the same problem with a normal Madeira if it hasn't baked properly. And the general consensus is to bake GF bakes at a lower temp for longer. 150C is a good temp, so I think it may be the mixing and baking time. Especially because I kept pulling it in and out of the oven for 20 mins.

I'm going to cut into it properly and feel a slice to see how it holds up.

Aww, I hope your youngest gets better soon and I'll give you an update later, I'll post more pics tomorrow.

 

[Sonia p]

I cut the cake before I put my tea on. It's nice and soft and slightly crumbly, but it's gummy in the centre. I think from reading up, this is down to a few possibilities, one I took it out at 1.5 hrs so I've messed with the structure slightly, I didn't beat it for long enough before putting the batter in the oven, apparently GF bakes like being mixed for longer and some of them are saying let the batter react for a while on the side to allow moisture to absorb into the flour. Or bake for longer. Some are saying the flour may be the cause but then, reading another website a lady who does lots of GF baking recommends the one I used.

To be honest, looking at it I would say it's underdone because I sometimes have the same problem with a normal Madeira if it hasn't baked properly. And the general consensus is to bake GF bakes at a lower temp for longer. 150C is a good temp, so I think it may be the mixing and baking time. Especially because I kept pulling it in and out of the oven for 20 mins.

I'm going to cut into it properly and feel a slice to see how it holds up.

Aww, I hope your youngest gets better soon and I'll give you an update later, I'll post more pics tomorrow.

Oh wow. You've been through it today. Sounds stressful, I'm so sorry. I really appreciate you trying it out for us. I'm really nervous now. I think I'll try the Victoria sponge version instead to see how that pans out.
Hopefully you all get to enjoy some of the cake. Xxx

 

[Angie]

No, don't be sorry, it had to be done, and I'd rather me do it than you do it and then you have to start over.

I've just cut some slices and had a good feel of them. I split the cake slice into three sections: the bottom part feels like a Madeira structure and holds and tastes like one, the middle is gummy and underdone, and the top is soft, crumbly and softer than a Victoria Sponge.

It would have been great if it had worked out properly, but this is how we learn by trial and error. We have learned a few things, so it isn't a waste of time or effort. My daughter thinks it's alright, so that's good. Hubby said he'd have some with custard, and I keep taste-testing cubes of it from different areas of the cake to check the taste/texture of it.

It tastes nice, but yeah, I would definitely try your Victoria recipe. If it's the one from the book, it's obviously a proper GF cake recipe, and it's more likely to work, and you can cover a Victoria Cake with fondant. If you have toppers that are heavy, they can dip into the Victoria cake sometimes because it's softer, so either put a small board underneath them or put some straws in the cake to hold up the toppers. That's if you have any.

I'm a bit tired now, so I will post the pics tomorrow, but let me know how you get on. Fingers crossed, yours is Amazing!